The Gospel of MADE: A Guide for Autodidacts, Multi-Hyphenate Creatives, and the Self-MADE
Meet Jermaine Campbell a.k.a. MADE, musician and creative director of Kustom Godz: capsule one, the brainchild of basketball legend Kevin Garnett.
“People don’t understand, Chicago has some of the greatest artists to ever exist that you never heard of.” Growing up in Aurora, Illinois, just an hour outside of Chicago, Jermaine Campbell’s suburban upbringing made him feel like an outsider to the hip-hop music scene. That is, until Kanye West’s “The College Dropout'' reimagined it in 2004 by introducing middle class themes that bucked genre norms and secularism. As the story goes, the breakout album inspired a new wave of Chicago artists, notably Chance the Rapper, who reached mainstream success without the help of a major record label. For Campbell a.k.a. MADE, who cites Qari Delaney and Luke Titus as peers, and Elton Aura as his main collaborator, laying claim to the city as buried treasure is a sign for us to keep digging, or more appropriately, keep streaming.
You might think it strange, then, that I would have to ask Campbell to clarify what resonates most for him today, fashion or music. Back in February of this year, he helped launch the first capsule collection for Kustom Godz, a line of tailored sweats by basketball legend Kevin Garnett, for which Campbell served as the creative director. MADE tells me, still in disbelief, that he was introduced to “the Big Ticket” at a Paul Smith store in L.A. on what was an otherwise ordinary shift at his day job.
I imagine Garnett needs no introduction. He stands at 6 feet 11 inches and in his basketball shoes, over 7 feet. For the 2023-2024 season, the average height of NBA players was 6’ 6.5.” Off-the-rack suits or ready-to-wear max out at 6’ 2.” Even with the spending power of a professional sports contract, finding something that fits well and looks good can be challenging, forget befitting a professional athlete. Further complicating matters, MADE tells me, “Basketball players, in general, don’t have to be the tallest to be a tough fit. They might be 6' 4," which could normally fit an XXL, but their arms could be ridiculously long, or their glute muscles could be too big for certain pants, even if they fit them on the inseam.”
The NBA tradition of players celebrating their first contract signing with a visit to the tailor goes back further than our recent fascination with athletes’ looks from the tunnel, captured by @leaguefits, the much beloved Instagram account started by SLAM in March 2018.
Just take a look back at an LA Times article from 1993, and you’ll see that Lakers player Sam Perkins liked to spend his free time shopping for suit fabrics when he was on the road and that Kevin Willis, then a player for the Atlanta Hawks, had studied fashion design (his major was in fashion & textiles) at Michigan State. Willis would go on to intern for Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger, and start his own brand, Willis & Walker, which premiered at NYFW in September 2011.
Sports and fashion fans today are lucky to have @leaguefits, which also retrospectively captures the decades ahead looks of Dennis Rodman or the dapper, funky styles of Walt Frazier, in addition to current fascinations, Russell Westbrook or Jordan Clarkson.
Predictably, the NBA tried to clamp down on players dressing up in 2005, with a memo that cited “business casual” as the official dress code, forbidding sleeveless shirts, sunglasses when indoors, chains, pendants etc. Golden State Warriors guard, Jason Richardson called out the policy as racist and in spite of the policy push, stylists such as Courtney Mays have continued to blend hip-hop, emerging brands, and established luxury labels into unique looks that celebrate the player’s personality, pride, love for life and the game.
Garnett’s foray into fashion sits firmly in the #CozyFam category made popular by @leaguefits and incorporates old-school tailoring for that special feeling you can only get from a custom fit.
But back to the music, which MADE resolutely chose over fashion when I asked him for clarification. MADE began to pursue a musical career in his early 20s and rediscovered the natural inclination he had: He didn’t grow up playing any instruments and has no formal training; everything he does now—writing, recording, producing—he’s had to learn on his own. The earliest track available online is from 2017, “Don’t Stop” featuring EKO on Apple Music, which was followed by a slew of singles until 2020, when he released the EP, “Black Stories.” He returned in 2022 with “By Myself” and a follow up, “By Myself: Double Text” in 2023. In the same year, he released “The Great Outdoors” and companion projects to the albums: a “Great Outdoors Discussion” and “A Convo with No Budget” for further reflection on the themes of each project. Paul Smith was a way to make an honest living, immersed in a secondary interest.
“I just remember when I was a kid, I used to be able to memorize music very well, like if I heard a song playing through a wall. One night I was sleeping, and I woke up and heard the neighbors having a party next door. I could hear the bassline through the wall, and just from that, I could put together the rest of the instruments that were in the song at a young age. I never knew what that meant but I was always curious about it, and I think that’s what led me to trying to do music later in life.”
Despite fashion taking a secondary role, MADE is still invested. After all, taking inspiration from Ye isn’t for dabblers or for sycophants, and MADE questions luxury as a part of his design process. A question, Ye’s oft-collaborator, Demna Gvasalia, publicly asked (and answered) during the premiere of Balenciaga’s Winter 2024 collection.
In the line of such questioning there’s little room for self-delusions and admiration is earned. MADE says, “The thing that I hate is that emblems and status sway people’s taste. Do we really like that car, or do we really like the brand of the car? Or do we think that just because it’s expensive, we want it? Do we really like Balenciaga, or do we really like the shirt we saw in Zara? You could be in a position to acquire both, but if you trust your taste, it doesn’t matter what the stake or the circumstances are.”
In an era where many European luxury brands are overreaching the natural boundaries of their influence and forsaking positioning for the sake of growth, MADE’s sentiments are a part of a greater interrogation of luxury. Balenciaga gave permission, as Kanye did for Black artists living outside of the city, for shunned cultures to take up space on the global stage. MADE’s vocalizations in music and fashion could prove to be another conduit in this global movement.
In this interview with Le Fool, Campbell shares with us his gospel for art-making—an inspiring guidebook for autodidacts, multi-hyphenate creatives and the self-MADE.
October 6, 2024
Interviewed by Jee Young Park | Co-Founder
Photo (above): Courtesy of MADE, Jermaine Campbell
LE FOOL: There were many ways to start this interview because you have a world unto your name. I see you in Jamaica, NYC, LA, London, and Paris. In terms of interests, you’re just as adventurous; you explore fashion, music, relationship advice, lessons in getting fired, to faith. When I look at your body of work, the feeling I get is, “your cup runneth over.” Do you ever feel overwhelmed as a result? Like there is so much you have to do and say and not enough time?
MADE: I feel super overwhelmed! And all my friends, all my peers know this about me because whenever I need to do something I don’t know what to do or where to start.
It’s a gift and a curse that I’ve taught myself how to do so many things creatively and I have such a vast interest in things that I want to pursue.
In making music, I can write the music, I can record the music, and I can produce the music. Then you go into creative direction. I know how to do all these things, but I never know where to start.
And a lot of the time I do too much heavy lifting and I get extremely overwhelmed to the point where I’ll just disappear. That’s something even people who have kept up with my work or kept up with my life and journey will notice. I just go away. You will not see me on social media. I might have deleted that shit. Or maybe I’ll come back, or I’ll come back as a new image or a new profile.
Whatever the case may be, I have to constantly reset or restart and that’s something that’s a little bit frustrating because I’m a self-aware person. I’ll have certain conversations with my peers, my friends, my family and I’ll be venting to them, and I’ll realize — “You do the same thing every time, you bite off more than you can chew.”
What I’m starting to embrace is that, since I’m a multi-creative, I have to set my own schedule. I have to set my own task list and that is extremely important. I can’t create spontaneously. I have to direct my focus at times.
I also have to remind myself that things take time to get done. That frustrates me because I’m the type of creative where I could finish something in a night, and I want to put it out tomorrow. That’s who I am. That’s how I work. And that’s what excites me.
The art of leaving something undone but still trusting that it will either get done or everything will be okay without it, is a shocking but necessary thing that I’m trying to instill into my life as a person and as a creative.
It's like heartbreak. When I listen back to my album, “By Myself” there’s so much demand for closure. Then I started to learn in life that you don’t always get closure. You don’t always need closure and sometimes the closure that you need in the moment is not the masterpiece.
The masterpiece is when you forget about it and you’re living a life, and you realize, damn, if these things did not happen, then I could not be in this space that I’m so at peace with and I wouldn’t trade this for anything.
For me, I get to that place through my art. Nowadays I tell myself, be okay with the fact that you made something extremely hot but it’s not going to see the light of day.
You might’ve needed to make that, or you might’ve needed to fail at trying to make that and it actually helped.
Or because it’s not out there, you can take pieces from that and implement it into something that needs it more.
It’s all about creating balance and really letting things develop on their own time. That would be my short answer. Letting things develop and not being so much in control, even though I could do all these things.
But yes, it’s very overwhelming.
LE FOOL: How do you know a project is complete? Is it a feeling or does something else naturally come up?
MADE: I’ll answer this in two ways. Projects I’ve worked on in the past are complete when I stop wanting to live in that world, in that sound or in that look. Usually there’s nothing else to do or I start to overthink things and be like, “Oh, I wish…”
When I start to wish things were different, I know it’s probably best that I just go ahead and put a ribbon on it because then I’m just being the character trait of pretty much every true artist, which is a perfectionist and as we know there’s no such thing as perfection. That’s when I usually know I’m done.
Granted, this last year is probably the longest time that I’ve spent without putting out a project or music. I don’t think I’ve put out anything since “The Great Outdoors.”
It’s been about a year because my employment required my creativity for the first time ever. Which was interesting. A lot of my energy went into that and not into what I was doing anymore. It just opened up a window of time for things to happen.
A lot of the time I would think about my art and my work as something that was going to save me or take me out of the life I was living. It wasn’t until a few short years ago when I realized my art is my art and I believe it will take me to the heights that I want to go. However, there are things that I can do practically that will still give me the life that I want to live, and it will only enhance my art.
Last year—I think for the first time—I was working a position that was very healthy for me financially. So, I was not rushed at all, and it was a new perspective. Before that, everything I did, I had to get done because my life wasn’t right. But what I know now is that when my life is right, I’m looking at everything like I don’t have to do anything in a hurry.
My favorite quote is, “Be quick but don’t hurry” because there’s a difference between moving with a sense of purpose versus rushing. I would say if you were to ask me then, that most of the projects I’ve put out feel complete. But you know, “The Great Outdoors,” I think it was seven or eight, I think I made it to nine tracks, who knows right? And I felt like that’s a proper album— that’s not a four, five track EP, seven track EP. I only wondered what it would’ve been like if I could dedicate my whole life to creating “The Great Outdoors.” What if it had been a situation where I had to deliver an album and someone had said, “We’ll give you three years to just live and work on this,” then “The Great Outdoors” might have been 14 tracks, I don’t know.
I guess to answer the question, it’s within the window that you decide. This is something that’s important, setting deadlines — right? If you don’t set a deadline, then you’ll be creating forever.
So, how do you know when a project is done? When there’s nothing left to do or when you realize you’re making excuses and perfectionistic is how, but it’s also when you hit your deadline.
I feel like a lot of artists don’t graduate for the same reason a lot of students don’t graduate, you could’ve been holding onto something that you intended to do forever—you intended to complete forever—but yo! If you miss the assignment date, you don’t pass to the next grade. I think that’s something that we as artists always got to be aware of in our creative process.
LE FOOL: How do you stay focused in your work while maintaining a presence across multiple platforms?
MADE: I can’t even answer this question because I don’t even know how I do it to be honest. To reference again what I was talking about earlier, it’s just one of those things where I crash out a lot. I would say this as my answer, creating a balance — and I’m still not perfect at that, I’m a work in progress when it comes to that.
LE FOOL: In “The Great Outdoors” album notes you wrote, “[Black Campfire Song] was not made when it was ‘up.’ It was really low actually…the original lyrics was actually ‘F**K These n++++s’…but that was written years ago…The tone the album took on was more uplifting and positive…” Do you feel like this was a more fundamental change in your personality than “staying positive”? And some people never make this shift, even on a winning streak. I’m curious to know if there were instances where you said to yourself, “Wow, thank goodness I kept to it despite how difficult it was”? How has cultivating this mindset served you? For ambitious artists on a budget, what is one tip to help spark this mindset?
MADE: When I made “Black Campfire Song” it was really like a freestyle. I remember it was somebody’s birthday and we were in the room just creating. When I came up with the melody it was so catchy. I think I was infatuated by the simplicity of songs that are geared to kids but end up being hits for adults.
If you look at Lil Yachty’s “One Night,” it’s essentially the same kind of melody that you would hear in “Row, Row, Row Your Boat” and “The ABC Song” — things that are just that simple. So, I remember doing it and putting on my Kanye hat, thinking, “Oh, this is really controversial. Let’s do it!”
I wrote that so many years ago. Now, as an artist who’s 30 years old as opposed to an artist that’s 26 or 18 or 21, I just have more understanding of how these things affect human beings because I’ve had to address that in myself.
In making the whole album, I went through a lot of different transitions in life. I feel like I’ve always had a relationship with God, but I’ve never been able to cope with the fact that I was raised in Christianity. I let go of Christianity at a certain point then transitioned into overall wellness — exploring authors like Deepak Chopra and reading books like “The Power of Now” — things that weren’t encouraged when I was in church — and then made it back to my walk in faith as a Christian.
As a sidebar: I believe all religion is a language to a higher power and some people’s language is Buddhism, some people’s language is Islam, I just happen to have a grandmother who is Christian and instilled that particular faith in everybody in my family.
For me, by the time I got to the end, all of the songs on this album, the creative process of putting it all together, it was so much about trying to keep the standard of being “real,” and being honest about real things in life: Being honest about what it feels like to grieve. What it feels like to lose people that you love. What it feels like to be stripped down so much that you’re just seeing life at a place where it’s extremely beautiful even with all the ugly things that have happened to you. That is the “Great Outdoors” in a nutshell.
Then I had this song, “Black Campfire Song” — which is why it’s called “Black Campfire Song” — where I was saying, “fuck these N****s.” It was the beginning of the project and I sent it to Elton Aura, who is a close friend of mine that I always work with, and we both kind of agreed when listening to it that it was, for all of the positivity and the resolve (me and Elton talk a lot about putting art out there that has a resolution as much as it is raw), I wouldn’t want anybody to stop at track one and all they got from it is, “Fuck these N****s” and that it’s as catchy as ABC’s.
I actually had somebody say that to me who wasn’t Black. When they heard the album before it was out, they were like, “Oh yeah, I keep hearing this when I’m brushing my teeth.” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s probably a little bit dangerous.” I had to flip it into something that was more positive because I want the art to work for good, and I want it to be well communicated.
To answer another part of the question, a tip that could spark a proper mindset to be creative and ambitious on a budget is to work with the people around you and embrace learning new skills. I didn’t come into my career thinking that I was going to be the one holding the camera and mixing and mastering my own work, so on and so forth.
On my very first project, I mixed and mastered on my own, and that ended terribly. That was devastating to me because I thought that one project was everything. I thought it was my moment. But the more you live and the more you create, you realize, “No, that was just the moment that you were in, and it’s not all that bad that you fucked it up.”
The two projects after, I paid somebody to do it, but I watched them very closely while they were doing it. By the time I got to “By Myself: Double Text” I was doing my own mixes.
“The Great Outdoors” is one of my favorite projects as far as how I delivered it and I’m the one that mixed and mastered it. The things that you refuse to do or think you shouldn’t have to do, make sure that you always do something towards being more well-versed in it, because you never know. That might actually be your task someday, and now I actually embrace it, and I love it.
LE FOOL: In “A Great Outdoors Discussion,” there’s a lovely moment when you’re talking about being in nature as opposed to the city, and you can hear the beats in your reply, from feeling singled out or perhaps a little alone, then relishing it — it’s a revelation, the self in nature, “I’m the only one bringing the loud music. I’m the only one bringing it man but I’m perfectly fine with being the only, you know, that’s the other thing too, I feel more unique in spaces like this, I feel more myself…” I feel like you’re talking about finding negative space, that clean canvas, and how you can find that in nature. In addition to nature, what are other ways artists can look for empty spaces to speak into? Or cope with the void? Is it through travel? Reflection? A glass of water in the morning? Routines? I guess I’m essentially asking how you stay sane as a creative person.
MADE: All the ones you mentioned in your questions are actually great. It just depends on who you are. For me, being in the void is something that is very important as an artist, and it’s an easy one to forget too. I have to remind myself that it’s a part of my day the same way that eating and drinking is. It’s a part of my day to meditate. It’s a part of my day to pray. It’s a part of the fuel behind my creation to go see another walk of life.
If I could travel and get on a flight, that’s ideal. But if I can’t do that and I can just take a drive or if I can be in an unfamiliar space to notice a life outside of mine then you know, that’s also sufficient enough to help my art and to help spark creativity.
At the end of the day, we are all just vessels. We are all shaped differently. Imagine every artist were a statue or a sculpture just out in the world, and it only has one variable, and that’s basically where it’s placed.
You can pick up this sculpture and move it into an empty field in the grasslands and you could point it ninety degrees west and then the wind comes, and it might be gentle, it might be a tornado, you just never know.
Based on that, you will get the sound that that instrument creates, and I feel like as artists we are all just instruments that are channeling the wind or the force that comes through us.
The most important part for us is to do inventory and make sure that we’re cleansing to be able to create the purest sound. And I think that’s why a lot of artists suffer — from buildup. We have buildup and there’s no clear space for the air, for the message to run through you. Then you’re probably not going to be making…well, you’re probably not going to make a sound.
Or you’re not going to make the sound that you want. Or that you expected. Or that you know you can make. But if you do the things that keep you healthy — that’s cleaning the instrument, cleaning the vessel — so that energy can flow through it more effectively, that’s what it’s all about!
Things like traveling changes the tune of the sound, or it could just refresh you, it could be a part of that cleansing, but it’s all about what we’re ingesting through our senses, that create the art that happens through us as artists, as creatives.
LE FOOL: Who are your greatest influences and why?
MADE: I would definitely say Kanye is my greatest influence and I would say the why is because he did it. I’m from Aurora, Illinois. He did what he did in Chicago and there’s nobody who has ever done anything to that magnitude in Chicago to my knowledge. Not in my era at least.
People don’t understand, Chicago has some of the greatest artists to ever exist that you never heard of. And at the end of the day, you look at L.A. there’s a music industry there. You see Capitol Records buildings, you see Warner Music, you see the music or the movie industry.
You look at New York, it’s the same thing — you’ll see Def Jam or Roc Nation and you know, all of these industries for the music to actually progress and grow, get out there to the world.
In Chicago we have a few small record labels, zero major record labels and we’re a major city. And we have tons, we have a thriving art scene, but a lot of the time, it’s kept local. I got to see the most of that in Kanye West and that’s what I relate to the most. His walk in the beginning most spoke to me.
I grew up in Aurora, Illinois, not Chicago, Illinois. I never fit in when I went to the city, at least when I was a kid. I was always going to be labeled a kid from the suburbs. I was always going to be labeled as a Black kid with a white walk of life. And Kanye was the first person, the first artist I came into contact with who embodied a walk of life that did not involve violence or selling drugs and an interest in hip-hop. All the things that hip-hop was known for before him. And, of course, that’s not all hip-hop was about, that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying that it would have been impossible for somebody from anywhere that wasn’t living in a major inner city if it weren’t for him. It would have been impossible if Kanye West or someone like Kanye West did not exist. It would have been impossible for somebody from the suburbs to make it in rap, decide that they want to sing, or use and make house music at times. Or wear a pink polo or be into fashion. Being into actual fashion was taboo in hip-hop, so all of these things came with their own labels. I would definitely say that as much as I try not to say Kanye West — Kanye West.
I want to name some of my other influences as well. Definitely Jay-Z. His ability as a wordsmith is something that I really respect. His acumen as a businessman and as a thought leader too.
I’ve always respected Pharrell. Pharrell is one of my biggest influences and I love his ability to communicate and bring people together. It makes so much sense to me that he made so many hit records as a producer because 75% or more of producing is all about communication and getting people together. Putting people in a position where they can bring out their best selves. Maybe 25% or even a smaller percentage is about the actual music that’s being put out there.
And he made people feel so confident singing on them beats that sounded a little incomplete or singing “Frontin’” which I hated when I was a kid because he really does not have the richest voice but man, his ability to express and his belief in himself and him just being like—a Martian, it was like all-time. He’s one of my all-time influences for sure.
And he lives in so many different spaces, not just as a producer, but as an artist, as a creative director, as a collaborator, you know, as a humanitarian. The way that Pharrell lives his life as far as I can see — because I don’t know any of these people — it’s more sustainable when I watch his art and his life. It’s sustainable for me to model my art and my life after.
The taste of Kanye West is just on some whole other shit but how he lives his life is harder to process and harder to understand. It’s less sustainable for your everyday person or everyday artist. An everyday person couldn’t get away with the shit that Kanye West does. An everyday person couldn’t get away with the things Kanye says without merit or accountability. But an everyday person can thrive and live a fruitful life in whatever they do if they take a little bit of what Pharrell has shown us publicly.
So, Kanye West, Pharrell, Jay-Z. I love Q-Tip too, I love J Dilla, I like to look at the people who influenced the people who influenced me, and those are some of those names.
“Now, I feel heartbreak is just a specific label for an unpredictable outcome or a feeling that comes in the process of transitioning. So instead of labeling it as, ‘I am inspired by heartbreak’ now I’ll look at it as, ‘There’s an opportunity in every transition in life.’”
On “A Convo with No BudgetTM”
“The purpose of each episode was to give context to the tracks on ‘By Myself.’”
LE FOOL: I want to talk about feeling undesirable which was a motif of your album, “By Myself.” For the accompanying project, “A Convo with No BudgetTM,” you describe the different phases of relationships that you explored on the album. I loved the chemistry between you and Omenihu — you two must be close to be able to bring that up considering the specificity of the emotion: Loneliness can be a matter of personal choice, but undesirability comes from perceiving the way others treat you. It’s not something that anyone would be eager to own up to. Why was it important for you to talk about this?
MADE: First of all, thank you for listening to the podcast and being so observant. I come from the perspective of being an artist and I think the most important thing that an artist can do is to show the parts of humanity that people don’t typically have the courage to own up to on their own.
If I look at my favorite artists, they all share a specific quality: They are creatives who form tribes and lead thought. One of my favorites as I mentioned — probably tragically and disagreeably — is Kanye West. That’s the person that influenced me the most in the primary stage of growth as an artist.
For Kanye, his whole thing is about self-belief and confidence, and maybe even being egotistical. Then you look at artists like Jay-Z. His whole brand is about being self-made, being a hustler and being a mogul.
I said all that to say, when you’re an artist of real impact whatever you do reflects some sort of interest that allows people to see you, or see your work, and identify with an aspiration or access to therapeutic processing to get through.
For me, feeling undesirable was just what I was dealing with at that time and that feeling is probably not going to go away ever in life. But it’s just remembering sometimes you’re so fresh into something that you take every little thing personally.
It’s like you feel every needle poke that’s happening, but once you realize, okay, I’m just in a sharp environment while on my way to what really, really is for me in life, it makes it a lot easier to transcend that process but when you’re slow revving through it, it’s torture.
I just bring up being vulnerable and I use myself as a target because I know there are so many other people who need to be spoken up for. I actually appreciate the people who have those sensitivities because whenever you get to talk to them, there’s such a level of depth that’s kind of missing from everybody else who holds that type of stuff back or just acts like it doesn’t exist.
LE FOOL: The “By Myself” era was a real salve for broken hearts — did heartbreak inspire you?
MADE: Heartbreak is always inspirational for me — for anybody.
It’s kind of crazy because the audience knows that. People will sit and playfully be like, “Man, Summer Walker is not going to make good music until she gets her heart broken again.” Or “Kanye needs to experience another loss before we get another version of my ‘My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.’” And that’s really sad.
Now I’m in a more mature stage in life and I’m trying to do things that are healthy in my art. Early on, I feel that’s the easiest thing to do when you’re an artist — “Nobody loves me. Nobody likes me. I need attention so I’m going to do these things. And I’m going to put people on blast, you know, because I was dealt heartbreak or whatever the case may be” — and there’s great art that comes from that. But where I’m standing today, I feel differently than I did about two or three years ago when I put out “By Myself.”
Now, I feel heartbreak is just a specific label for an unpredictable outcome or a feeling that comes in the process of transitioning. So instead of labeling it as, “I am inspired by heartbreak” now I’ll look at it as, “There’s an opportunity in every transition in life.” That’s my developed way of processing it.
The most interesting things happen in transition and it’s no wonder why creatives identify and find so much success in transitioning, because there is so much pure potential in going from A-to-B or A-to-Z, whatever the destination and beginning point is. There are infinite possibilities in that space, and it allows you to shed who you are or who you think you are or who you envision yourself as, and you can become literally anything that your emotion will lead you to be.
So, to answer the question, I don’t think that. Yes, I do believe that heartbreak inspired me. But now, in a more developed space, I’m realizing that transitions, the unknown, is the place where I thrive as an artist.
On “A Convo with No BudgetTM”
“The purpose of each episode was to give context to the tracks on ‘By Myself.’”
LE FOOL: I want to talk about feeling undesirable which was a motif of your album, “By Myself.” For the accompanying project, “A Convo with No BudgetTM,” you describe the different phases of relationships that you explored on the album. I loved the chemistry between you and Omenihu — you two must be close to be able to bring that up considering the specificity of the emotion: Loneliness can be a matter of personal choice, but undesirability comes from perceiving the way others treat you. It’s not something that anyone would be eager to own up to. Why was it important for you to talk about this?
MADE: First of all, thank you for listening to the podcast and being so observant. I come from the perspective of being an artist and I think the most important thing that an artist can do is to show the parts of humanity that people don’t typically have the courage to own up to on their own.
If I look at my favorite artists, they all share a specific quality: They are creatives who form tribes and lead thought. One of my favorites as I mentioned — probably tragically and disagreeably — is Kanye West. That’s the person that influenced me the most in the primary stage of growth as an artist.
For Kanye, his whole thing is about self-belief and confidence, and maybe even being egotistical. Then you look at artists like Jay-Z. His whole brand is about being self-made, being a hustler and being a mogul.
I said all that to say, when you’re an artist of real impact whatever you do reflects some sort of interest that allows people to see you, or see your work, and identify with an aspiration or access to therapeutic processing to get through.
For me, feeling undesirable was just what I was dealing with at that time and that feeling is probably not going to go away ever in life. But it’s just remembering sometimes you’re so fresh into something that you take every little thing personally.
It’s like you feel every needle poke that’s happening, but once you realize, okay, I’m just in a sharp environment while on my way to what really, really is for me in life, it makes it a lot easier to transcend that process but when you’re slow revving through it, it’s torture.
I just bring up being vulnerable and I use myself as a target because I know there are so many other people who need to be spoken up for. I actually appreciate the people who have those sensitivities because whenever you get to talk to them, there’s such a level of depth that’s kind of missing from everybody else who holds that type of stuff back or just acts like it doesn’t exist.
LE FOOL: The “By Myself” era was a real salve for broken hearts — did heartbreak inspire you?
MADE: Heartbreak is always inspirational for me — for anybody.
It’s kind of crazy because the audience knows that. People will sit and playfully be like, “Man, Summer Walker is not going to make good music until she gets her heart broken again.” Or “Kanye needs to experience another loss before we get another version of my ‘My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.’” And that’s really sad.
Now I’m in a more mature stage in life and I’m trying to do things that are healthy in my art. Early on, I feel that’s the easiest thing to do when you’re an artist — “Nobody loves me. Nobody likes me. I need attention so I’m going to do these things. And I’m going to put people on blast, you know, because I was dealt heartbreak or whatever the case may be” — and there’s great art that comes from that. But where I’m standing today, I feel differently than I did about two or three years ago when I put out “By Myself.”
Now, I feel heartbreak is just a specific label for an unpredictable outcome or a feeling that comes in the process of transitioning. So instead of labeling it as, “I am inspired by heartbreak” now I’ll look at it as, “There’s an opportunity in every transition in life.” That’s my developed way of processing it.
The most interesting things happen in transition and it’s no wonder why creatives identify and find so much success in transitioning, because there is so much pure potential in going from A-to-B or A-to-Z, whatever the destination and beginning point is. There are infinite possibilities in that space, and it allows you to shed who you are or who you think you are or who you envision yourself as, and you can become literally anything that your emotion will lead you to be.
So, to answer the question, I don’t think that. Yes, I do believe that heartbreak inspired me. But now, in a more developed space, I’m realizing that transitions, the unknown, is the place where I thrive as an artist.
“God made us uniquely and if we tell the truth, as an audience or as a community…. if we learn how to really accept and embrace each other’s differences on this planet…we would have the most vibrant planet. I don’t even know how I’m going to end that, but it would be a much better life if we learned to just embrace our difference in taste, our difference in choice.”
On fashion. Developing taste, personal style, status symbols, fashion as a tool for self-exploration, fashion to navigate personal transformation.
LE FOOL: “Taste is a choice beyond circumstance.” — January 18, 2023. This has to be one of my favorite quotes of all time from your posts. It makes me laugh because it reminds me of the times I would gravitate towards the most expensive item in the store, without looking at the price tag (lol). But it’s more than that, I imagine. It’s about letting our aesthetic ambitions roam, free from what we “should” like. What were you thinking of when you wrote this back in January 2023?
MADE: It’s so cool to hear that you actually, that anybody actually, is keeping up with the specifics of anything I’m putting out there — that actually encourages me. I would put that on the list of things in the prior question of things that help an artist: Being around people who understand, appreciate, and acknowledge what you’re doing. Wow, I appreciate that.
To be honest, I don’t remember what I was exactly thinking then, but I'll tell you what it brings out in me today. It’s one of those things where no matter where you’re at in life — where you’re at financially, wherever you’re at on the social totem pole — you will always have one thing that you can control and one thing that people wished that they could change about you, which would in turn break you, and that’s your choice.
That’s your taste. That’s your preference.
Sometimes you have the ability and the resources to get exactly what your taste is, right? Most times in life, no matter how much you have, you won’t be able to acquire what your taste desires, but this is the great thing about it because that’s what forces you to be creative. That’s what forces you to be expressive.
Let’s talk about fashion. I have visions of many things that I can’t actually afford to upkeep, or I don’t think it’s responsible to indulge in because it’s just not very practical or it’s more self-serving, but I keep those things in my mind. And I promise you, I could go to a thrift store, a Target, a Walmart, and I could still achieve my taste. Now, there might not be as many options, but I never let anything sway my taste — I never let any trend, any circumstances, any jokes, or ridicule, anybody who has anything negative to say about it, sway it.
Taste is really a choice beyond the circumstance. That’s something that I really live by. I think that that’s what makes all of us unique. A lot of the time we try to figure out how to do something and in a more complex way but really it comes down to this: God made us uniquely and if we tell the truth, as an audience or as a community…. if we learn how to really accept and embrace each other’s differences on this planet…we would have the most vibrant planet. I don’t even know how I’m going to end that, but it would be a much better life if we learned to just embrace our difference in taste, our difference in choice. I think that’s one of the most important things that you could have as a human being.
The thing that I hate is that emblems and status sway people’s taste. Do we really like that car, or do we really like the brand of the car? Or do we think that just because it’s expensive, we want it? Do we really like Balenciaga, or do we really like the shirt we saw in Zara? You could be in a position to acquire both, but if you can trust your taste, it doesn’t matter what the stake or the circumstances are.
LE FOOL: You mentioned that working at Paul Smith was an important part of your journey as a creative person. I can always feel the difference between someone who has worked with clothes vs. someone who just looks at clothes or views them as props. There’s a different level of appreciation. I feel like you’re very much about that, and that level of care is shown in Kustom Godz. What is your relationship to clothes today? Has it evolved over time?
MADE: My relationship with clothes today is understanding that there’s a difference between style and fashion. A lot of what I did with Kustom Godz was the first time I ever did anything fashion, for real, for real. And working at Paul Smith helped to inform me on that because everything is about cut, fabric, working with actual tailoring.
When I was working with Kustom Godz, I got to use all those things I knew about cut and fabric but then I was introduced to this new thing called construction. I learned how much went into a product that was just a 2-D Adobe Illustrator design and how it becomes an actual garment that will fit somebody right or like the measurements that go beyond just inseam, or you know the shoulder, the arm length.
There are so many things about fashion that go beyond style.
I would say, I’m a balance of the two but I’m more so about style because style is just another form of expression. I feel like style is an outward way of showing who you are essentially.
There are so many things…even just wearing a certain color gives you a certain energy when people see you. It’s very much in the subconscious part of our reality but it’s no small thing. For example, I have on a navy-blue shirt today, very different for me and I look at myself in the mirror and I’m just like, “Bro, why would you put this on? Why would you wear this?”
Well, maybe I’m exploring today, and maybe I’m a little bit in-between. If somebody who really knows me saw me dressed today, they would know that I’m in a unique mood versus on certain days when I would wear something that’s more my character.
My favorite color to wear is yellow but I don’t wear it all the time. If I wear yellow though, you might get a different version of me, a different side of me which expresses how I’m very easygoing. I’m very much trying to bring smiles to the room.
I would say that’s my relationship or that’s the most important thing that I learned working at Paul Smith and working at Kustom Godz
—
the difference between fashion and style.
I really want people to start to see that for themselves. It’s not all about status. Most people pay a lot of money for clothes, they don’t even know why. Just because it’s made popular. The person who wore it first might know.
I’ll never forget, I was watching a Kanye interview, and he was like, “Man, I like wearing $650 Balenciaga Arena sneakers because they just, they just fit better. They just feel better to me, and I don’t know why.”
And if you remember the Balenciaga Arenas, they looked just like Nike Blazers. That was such an important point to me at a pivotal stage in my life, because that made me realize I could get the Balenciaga Arenas but there are other shoes that are just as stylish as those shoes, and work in a fashion that I need them to work in. I might not understand why I need to pay that much for some shoes. It’s not my lifestyle — yet, you know? At some point I might have so many Nike Blazers that I want something a little bit different. Sometimes I feel like that when I go to Zara or wherever, if I go to a common store, I feel I’ve had so much of this that I need something a little bit different. Or I need to go ahead and make something that really creates what I’m trying to achieve as far as the clothes that I’m wearing.
On fashion. Developing taste, personal style, status symbols, fashion as a tool for self-exploration, fashion to navigate personal transformation.
LE FOOL: “Taste is a choice beyond circumstance.” — January 18, 2023. This has to be one of my favorite quotes of all time from your posts. It makes me laugh because it reminds me of the times I would gravitate towards the most expensive item in the store, without looking at the price tag (lol). But it’s more than that, I imagine. It’s about letting our aesthetic ambitions roam, free from what we “should” like. What were you thinking of when you wrote this back in January 2023?
MADE: It’s so cool to hear that you actually, that anybody actually, is keeping up with the specifics of anything I’m putting out there — that actually encourages me. I would put that on the list of things in the prior question of things that help an artist: Being around people who understand, appreciate, and acknowledge what you’re doing. Wow, I appreciate that.
To be honest, I don’t remember what I was exactly thinking then, but I'll tell you what it brings out in me today. It’s one of those things where no matter where you’re at in life — where you’re at financially, wherever you’re at on the social totem pole — you will always have one thing that you can control and one thing that people wished that they could change about you, which would in turn break you, and that’s your choice.
That’s your taste. That’s your preference.
Sometimes you have the ability and the resources to get exactly what your taste is, right? Most times in life, no matter how much you have, you won’t be able to acquire what your taste desires, but this is the great thing about it because that’s what forces you to be creative. That’s what forces you to be expressive.
Let’s talk about fashion. I have visions of many things that I can’t actually afford to upkeep, or I don’t think it’s responsible to indulge in because it’s just not very practical or it’s more self-serving, but I keep those things in my mind. And I promise you, I could go to a thrift store, a Target, a Walmart, and I could still achieve my taste. Now, there might not be as many options, but I never let anything sway my taste — I never let any trend, any circumstances, any jokes, or ridicule, anybody who has anything negative to say about it, sway it.
Taste is really a choice beyond the circumstance. That’s something that I really live by. I think that that’s what makes all of us unique. A lot of the time we try to figure out how to do something and in a more complex way but really it comes down to this: God made us uniquely and if we tell the truth, as an audience or as a community…. if we learn how to really accept and embrace each other’s differences on this planet…we would have the most vibrant planet. I don’t even know how I’m going to end that, but it would be a much better life if we learned to just embrace our difference in taste, our difference in choice. I think that’s one of the most important things that you could have as a human being.
The thing that I hate is that emblems and status sway people’s taste. Do we really like that car, or do we really like the brand of the car? Or do we think that just because it’s expensive, we want it? Do we really like Balenciaga, or do we really like the shirt we saw in Zara? You could be in a position to acquire both, but if you can trust your taste, it doesn’t matter what the stake or the circumstances are.
LE FOOL: You mentioned that working at Paul Smith was an important part of your journey as a creative person. I can always feel the difference between someone who has worked with clothes vs. someone who just looks at clothes or views them as props. There’s a different level of appreciation. I feel like you’re very much about that, and that level of care is shown in Kustom Godz. What is your relationship to clothes today? Has it evolved over time?
MADE: My relationship with clothes today is understanding that there’s a difference between style and fashion. A lot of what I did with Kustom Godz was the first time I ever did anything fashion, for real, for real. And working at Paul Smith helped to inform me on that because everything is about cut, fabric, working with actual tailoring.
When I was working with Kustom Godz, I got to use all those things I knew about cut and fabric but then I was introduced to this new thing called construction. I learned how much went into a product that was just a 2-D Adobe Illustrator design and how it becomes an actual garment that will fit somebody right or like the measurements that go beyond just inseam, or you know the shoulder, the arm length.
There are so many things about fashion that go beyond style.
I would say, I’m a balance of the two but I’m more so about style because style is just another form of expression. I feel like style is an outward way of showing who you are essentially.
There are so many things…even just wearing a certain color gives you a certain energy when people see you. It’s very much in the subconscious part of our reality but it’s no small thing. For example, I have on a navy-blue shirt today, very different for me and I look at myself in the mirror and I’m just like, “Bro, why would you put this on? Why would you wear this?”
Well, maybe I’m exploring today, and maybe I’m a little bit in-between. If somebody who really knows me saw me dressed today, they would know that I’m in a unique mood versus on certain days when I would wear something that’s more my character.
My favorite color to wear is yellow but I don’t wear it all the time. If I wear yellow though, you might get a different version of me, a different side of me which expresses how I’m very easygoing. I’m very much trying to bring smiles to the room.
I would say that’s my relationship or that’s the most important thing that I learned working at Paul Smith and working at Kustom Godz — the difference between fashion and style.
I really want people to start to see that for themselves. It’s not all about status. Most people pay a lot of money for clothes, they don’t even know why. Just because it’s made popular. The person who wore it first might know.
I’ll never forget, I was watching a Kanye interview, and he was like, “Man, I like wearing $650 Balenciaga Arena sneakers because they just, they just fit better. They just feel better to me, and I don’t know why.”
And if you remember the Balenciaga Arenas, they looked just like Nike Blazers. That was such an important point to me at a pivotal stage in my life, because that made me realize I could get the Balenciaga Arenas but there are other shoes that are just as stylish as those shoes, and work in a fashion that I need them to work in. I might not understand why I need to pay that much for some shoes. It’s not my lifestyle — yet, you know? At some point I might have so many Nike Blazers that I want something a little bit different. Sometimes I feel like that when I go to Zara or wherever, if I go to a common store, I feel I’ve had so much of this that I need something a little bit different. Or I need to go ahead and make something that really creates what I’m trying to achieve as far as the clothes that I’m wearing.
“The thing that I hate is that emblems and status sway people’s taste.”
LE FOOL: How did Kustom Godz come about?
MADE: Strangely enough, I was just working at Paul Smith downtown and it was a regular day. I remember I had my phone set up and was in the dressing room. When it was dead I would make content videos of me switching outfits, me putting together pieces that were in the store and post it for my clients to be able to see.
While I was in the middle of that Kevin Garnett and a client I had worked with previously walked into the door. He walks in and he’s like, “Hey, I’m Kevin.” I’m just like, “Yeah, I know…” I didn’t say that, of course, but I was definitely thinking it! Anyways, I introduced myself, let them take a look around and had a short conversation. He told me he was looking to start a clothing line, and he just came in there for some inspiration, so I wasn’t thinking I had just interviewed for a job. I thought, “Oh okay, I just met Kevin Garnett, that was cool. Pretty cool day, right?”
The guy that he came in with frequented our store and he worked with a couple different people that worked in the store. When I helped him out the last time, I must have made a good impression on him.
I really did focus on that when I was working at Paul Smith, the days did really drag and there were times when I really felt like I was not supposed to be there, or I felt like I had better things to do but I always just tried to approach it with the same attitude every day and to always give my best.
That’s something that I didn’t do in other places. I always tried to do it, but I never successfully stuck to it. But at Paul Smith because I left a good impression on that person, they ended up being somebody who designs and produces clothing and works with all kinds of different brands — really an expert in that world — and they so happened to have met Kevin Garnett, and Kevin Garnett was trying to make a clothing line, and because I made a good impression on my client, my client must have seen something in me to the point where he was just like, I need to like introduce you to this person.
At that point we didn’t know what it was going to be, and it didn’t just happen fast. The client would ask questions sporadically like, “We’re working on varsity jackets. Do you think you could show us what you would think about what a cool varsity jacket would look like?” And I would go, and I would be like, “Yeah!—Damn, how do I do this again?” — I had to reteach myself how to use Illustrator because I’ve been on so much of the music side of things. I’d pick myself up and just say “Alright, let me just see what I can do.” And I would just take it task by task, request by request and you know, eventually they ended up allowing me to be creative director for the entire brand and how it was going to be introduced to the public. I got to work on capsule one of Kustom Godz and that’s pretty much how that came about.
It was a really wild and random story but in turn, I went from working an ordinary day at Paul Smith to basically being recruited by Kevin Garnett which was super unreal. Even as I’m talking about it right now… “Dang, that really did happen?” It was a cool experience and I’m looking forward to whatever is next for me in store, but I could say that I designed a fashion collection and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty special to me because I really do love clothing.
LE FOOL: Kustom Godz touches on some of the most important issues in fashion from size inclusivity to genre mixing, it’s a focused brand. In the era of unending hype, this feels like real value for an underserved market and unsurprisingly, very Kevin Garnett! Like a gap he saw in his wardrobe. Was this the focus from the beginning or a journey, over multiple conversations? What was your role in the inception of the brand?
MADE: The brand was the brainchild of Kevin Garnett because of an issue that he faced so much in his life being KG. Kevin Garnett was a power forward/center in the NBA, those guys are usually 6' 9," 6' 10," 7-feet.
Basketball players in general, don’t have to be the tallest to be able to be a tough fit because you might be 6'4" which could normally maybe fit an XXL. Let’s say, and your arms are just ridiculously long, or you know, your glute muscles are too big for certain pants even if they fit you on the inseam.
It’s something he came up with to solve an issue that he and his peers deal with in everyday life. That was the plan from the beginning. That’s the reason why he named it Kustom Godz and I basically came up with the idea of how the clothing or brand would look, what would be the brand story.
From working at Ralph Lauren, I learned about how important a brand’s story is, even more so than the clothing. The clothing being high quality and well-designed — those were all matters of integrity — but more than anything brands sell the idea of a lifestyle, and they pull from places that ultimately, they want it to embody. Ralph Lauren pulled from the country club and branded that and offered that to the public and created ads about it.
Because I was around for the birth of this brand, I was trying to do things that were sustainable over time so that we wouldn’t have to figure out, “Oh, what’s our first Kustom Godz ad going to look like?”
From the beginning we decided we’re going to pull from the theme of being regal and achieving the highest version of yourself, being a god in your own right and to incorporate certain details into the clothing, like having a silk lining and how that reflects having the interior of the clothing be as rich as the interior of a human being who has high self-esteem.
All of the things that I did were basically from a design and storytelling point of view. Creating the logo, assets, and things that would ultimately build our world but the actual concept of the clothing line for big & tall, that was all Kevin’s idea, and I just built the bridge.
LE FOOL: There’s a moment in the clip with Stephen A. Smith on “KG: Certified” when he sees the “Contrack Suit” and notes how fashion forward it is. “You have to be courageous to wear this!” he says. I thought that was apt, and the suit is a highlight from the capsule that I love just as much as the ease of the “Versailles” hoodie and pants. I know it’s not fair to ask, but do you have a favorite? And how do you see the brand growing?
MADE: The “Contrak Suit” was probably one of my favorite pieces, I loved the “Versailles” as well. I also had a lot of favorites in the pieces that never made it to market.
Knowing how hard it is to produce fashion, I find it impressive that as a clothing line that is just starting out, we managed to put out a full capsule collection. When I look at all my favorite brands or brands like Fear of God or maybe even KITH, etc. They usually start off with one or two items and they push those. And introductory products will usually be a T-shirt. Fear of God made an extended T-shirt. It was his take on silhouette—Jerry Lorenzo’s take on silhouette. He noticed a void in the market, he went and made something that only he could make.
For Kustom Godz, we had our own factory. We could take off and make eight pieces for our first capsule and it was like real cut and sew stuff. It wasn’t like, oh here’s a T-shirt, here’s a hoodie. No, it was, here’s our vision on what men’s suiting can look like as a hybrid of athleisure and that’s the “Contrak Suit.” We named it that because it was half tracksuit and half actual suit and we envisioned it being something that the mogul would wear or somebody who might sign a new contract, that they might wear to their signing or might hop on a private jet to that.
I’m particularly proud of the level of detail and fabrication on all of our items. The “Contrak Suit” was probably one of my favorites from the collection, but I see so much more potential. It’s tough to answer that question.
As a perfectionist, I see more of the flaws and the way forward, what I could’ve improved on. I would’ve loved to have spent more time on the small details. More fittings. I still have it in me to do four, five, six different iterations of the same “Versailles Hoodie.” I’m happy that my designs made it from a creative level but from a technical level, the idea deserves seven drafts or more. I’m not ready to be satisfied just yet but I’m always grateful.
LE FOOL: What do you do to relax? Do you have a hobby outside of your creative work?
MADE: I trade off hobbies. At one point it was basketball. At one point it was roller skating. I remember during the time I made “By Myself,” my girlfriend and I would really bond over roller skating.
I was teaching her how to roller skate and I fell in love with roller skating myself — I didn’t know how much I love to be on wheels. That was super freeing to me.
I love to listen to music too but it’s hard to relax and listen to the music because I’m always thinking about how it’s happening, how they’re doing it. I study it. It goes from something that I’m relaxing and doing to something that I’m processing and trying to make work for myself.
I definitely like to watch sports: I like to watch basketball. I like to watch football.
I think my favorite thing to do though, if I’m going to be honest, is just have a conversation. Having a good conversation is my favorite thing to do. If we could really go deep, that's truly my favorite thing to do, have a conversation about something that I care about or something that the person cares about. I love that. There’s not a lot of things I like doing more than that.
I also like shopping for CD’s, shopping for old music tech or just nerdy stuff. I’m a nerd. I like to read books.
I would say that’s probably a good list. I really want to get into biking and cycling, that would be cool. I want to start playing tennis a little bit more.
To just relax, I like to take a long drive. Take a little staycation in L.A. There are so many places you can go within the state, it’s pretty dope. Sometimes I would get my car and drive two-three hours away and just kick it.
LE FOOL: I’ve badgered you enough with my questions, here’s the mic for any last remarks you have for our readers.
MADE: I would like to say thank you. This was cool to do. I hope I didn’t talk too much but you asked really good questions, and I appreciate you, for one, having me do this but also for, two, for actually tapping in with what I’m doing and seeing everything that I do in detail to the point where it can be referenced like this. There are so many things you brought up that I forgot about, or I took for granted so I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I cannot wait to see this!
LE FOOL: How did Kustom Godz come about?
MADE: Strangely enough, I was just working at Paul Smith downtown and it was a regular day. I remember I had my phone set up and was in the dressing room. When it was dead I would make content videos of me switching outfits, me putting together pieces that were in the store and post it for my clients to be able to see.
While I was in the middle of that Kevin Garnett and a client I had worked with previously walked into the door. He walks in and he’s like, “Hey, I’m Kevin.” I’m just like, “Yeah, I know…” I didn’t say that, of course, but I was definitely thinking it! Anyways, I introduced myself, let them take a look around and had a short conversation. He told me he was looking to start a clothing line, and he just came in there for some inspiration, so I wasn’t thinking I had just interviewed for a job. I thought, “Oh okay, I just met Kevin Garnett, that was cool. Pretty cool day, right?”
The guy that he came in with frequented our store and he worked with a couple different people that worked in the store. When I helped him out the last time, I must have made a good impression on him.
I really did focus on that when I was working at Paul Smith, the days did really drag and there were times when I really felt like I was not supposed to be there, or I felt like I had better things to do but I always just tried to approach it with the same attitude every day and to always give my best.
That’s something that I didn’t do in other places. I always tried to do it, but I never successfully stuck to it. But at Paul Smith because I left a good impression on that person, they ended up being somebody who designs and produces clothing and works with all kinds of different brands — really an expert in that world — and they so happened to have met Kevin Garnett, and Kevin Garnett was trying to make a clothing line, and because I made a good impression on my client, my client must have seen something in me to the point where he was just like, I need to like introduce you to this person.
At that point we didn’t know what it was going to be, and it didn’t just happen fast. The client would ask questions sporadically like, “We’re working on varsity jackets. Do you think you could show us what you would think about what a cool varsity jacket would look like?” And I would go, and I would be like, “Yeah!—Damn, how do I do this again?” — I had to reteach myself how to use Illustrator because I’ve been on so much of the music side of things. I’d pick myself up and just say “Alright, let me just see what I can do.” And I would just take it task by task, request by request and you know, eventually they ended up allowing me to be creative director for the entire brand and how it was going to be introduced to the public. I got to work on capsule one of Kustom Godz and that’s pretty much how that came about.
It was a really wild and random story but in turn, I went from working an ordinary day at Paul Smith to basically being recruited by Kevin Garnett which was super unreal. Even as I’m talking about it right now… “Dang, that really did happen?” It was a cool experience and I’m looking forward to whatever is next for me in store, but I could say that I designed a fashion collection and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty special to me because I really do love clothing.
LE FOOL: Kustom Godz touches on some of the most important issues in fashion from size inclusivity to genre mixing, it’s a focused brand. In the era of unending hype, this feels like real value for an underserved market and unsurprisingly, very Kevin Garnett! Like a gap he saw in his wardrobe. Was this the focus from the beginning or a journey, over multiple conversations? What was your role in the inception of the brand?
MADE: The brand was the brainchild of Kevin Garnett because of an issue that he faced so much in his life being KG. Kevin Garnett was a power forward/center in the NBA, those guys are usually 6' 9," 6' 10," 7-feet.
Basketball players in general, don’t have to be the tallest to be able to be a tough fit because you might be 6'4" which could normally maybe fit an XXL. Let’s say, and your arms are just ridiculously long, or you know, your glute muscles are too big for certain pants even if they fit you on the inseam.
It’s something he came up with to solve an issue that he and his peers deal with in everyday life. That was the plan from the beginning. That’s the reason why he named it Kustom Godz and I basically came up with the idea of how the clothing or brand would look, what would be the brand story.
From working at Ralph Lauren, I learned about how important a brand’s story is, even more so than the clothing. The clothing being high quality and well-designed — those were all matters of integrity — but more than anything brands sell the idea of a lifestyle, and they pull from places that ultimately, they want it to embody. Ralph Lauren pulled from the country club and branded that and offered that to the public and created ads about it.
Because I was around for the birth of this brand, I was trying to do things that were sustainable over time so that we wouldn’t have to figure out, “Oh, what’s our first Kustom Godz ad going to look like?”
From the beginning we decided we’re going to pull from the theme of being regal and achieving the highest version of yourself, being a god in your own right and to incorporate certain details into the clothing, like having a silk lining and how that reflects having the interior of the clothing be as rich as the interior of a human being who has high self-esteem.
All of the things that I did were basically from a design and storytelling point of view. Creating the logo, assets, and things that would ultimately build our world but the actual concept of the clothing line for big & tall, that was all Kevin’s idea, and I just built the bridge.
LE FOOL: There’s a moment in the clip with Stephen A. Smith on “KG: Certified” when he sees the “Contrack Suit” and notes how fashion forward it is. “You have to be courageous to wear this!” he says. I thought that was apt, and the suit is a highlight from the capsule that I love just as much as the ease of the “Versailles” hoodie and pants. I know it’s not fair to ask, but do you have a favorite? And how do you see the brand growing?
MADE: The “Contrak Suit” was probably one of my favorite pieces, I loved the “Versailles” as well. I also had a lot of favorites in the pieces that never made it to market.
Knowing how hard it is to produce fashion, I find it impressive that as a clothing line that is just starting out, we managed to put out a full capsule collection. When I look at all my favorite brands or brands like Fear of God or maybe even KITH, etc. They usually start off with one or two items and they push those. And introductory products will usually be a T-shirt. Fear of God made an extended T-shirt. It was his take on silhouette—Jerry Lorenzo’s take on silhouette. He noticed a void in the market, he went and made something that only he could make.
For Kustom Godz, we had our own factory. We could take off and make eight pieces for our first capsule and it was like real cut and sew stuff. It wasn’t like, oh here’s a T-shirt, here’s a hoodie. No, it was, here’s our vision on what men’s suiting can look like as a hybrid of athleisure and that’s the “Contrak Suit.” We named it that because it was half tracksuit and half actual suit and we envisioned it being something that the mogul would wear or somebody who might sign a new contract, that they might wear to their signing or might hop on a private jet to that.
I’m particularly proud of the level of detail and fabrication on all of our items. The “Contrak Suit” was probably one of my favorites from the collection, but I see so much more potential. It’s tough to answer that question.
As a perfectionist, I see more of the flaws and the way forward, what I could’ve improved on. I would’ve loved to have spent more time on the small details. More fittings. I still have it in me to do four, five, six different iterations of the same “Versailles Hoodie.” I’m happy that my designs made it from a creative level but from a technical level, the idea deserves seven drafts or more. I’m not ready to be satisfied just yet but I’m always grateful.
LE FOOL: What do you do to relax? Do you have a hobby outside of your creative work?
MADE: I trade off hobbies. At one point it was basketball. At one point it was roller skating. I remember during the time I made “By Myself,” my girlfriend and I would really bond over roller skating.
I was teaching her how to roller skate and I fell in love with roller skating myself — I didn’t know how much I love to be on wheels. That was super freeing to me.
I love to listen to music too but it’s hard to relax and listen to the music because I’m always thinking about how it’s happening, how they’re doing it. I study it. It goes from something that I’m relaxing and doing to something that I’m processing and trying to make work for myself.
I definitely like to watch sports: I like to watch basketball. I like to watch football.
I think my favorite thing to do though, if I’m going to be honest, is just have a conversation. Having a good conversation is my favorite thing to do. If we could really go deep, that's truly my favorite thing to do, have a conversation about something that I care about or something that the person cares about. I love that. There’s not a lot of things I like doing more than that.
I also like shopping for CD’s, shopping for old music tech or just nerdy stuff. I’m a nerd. I like to read books.
I would say that’s probably a good list. I really want to get into biking and cycling, that would be cool. I want to start playing tennis a little bit more.
To just relax, I like to take a long drive. Take a little staycation in L.A. There are so many places you can go within the state, it’s pretty dope. Sometimes I would get my car and drive two-three hours away and just kick it.
LE FOOL: I’ve badgered you enough with my questions, here’s the mic for any last remarks you have for our readers.
MADE: I would like to say thank you. This was cool to do. I hope I didn’t talk too much but you asked really good questions, and I appreciate you, for one, having me do this but also for, two, for actually tapping in with what I’m doing and seeing everything that I do in detail to the point where it can be referenced like this. There are so many things you brought up that I forgot about, or I took for granted so I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I cannot wait to see this!