October 22, 2025
By Le Fool

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Photo: Isabella Bejorano Courtesy of Simon Ungless

To those in the industry, Simon Ungless needs no introduction. Others may know him as the brilliant mind behind the iconic prints that defined Alexander McQueen's early collections, but to see him only in that light is to miss his most profound contribution to fashion. In this age of financialization and greenwashing, he is proving that success is still possible for those who focus on craft and creativity. Le Fool sits down with him to discuss his sought-after label, When Simon Met Ralph, and the general state of the industry.

Le Fool: So, I have to start with this: Why the decision to start When Simon Met Ralph at this time?

Simon Ungless: The fundamental concept has been something I’ve worked on for many years, starting with my own clothes. I wanted to have things that nobody else had. I achieved this through various textile treatment techniques.

Through lockdown, I did a lot more of my own work to demonstrate to the students in the classes I was teaching that they could, in fact, continue to work from home without access to the studios and equipment. It started as a 30-day creative challenge that I extended as the pandemic went on.

My work received some attention from the industry, and I started freelancing. It was seen through social media, and I received requests from people to buy pieces and to work on things they already owned. It all grew quickly, and I was able to leave my full-time teaching job. I got into teaching by chance, and after 30 years, it was time to get back to the real world.

Le Fool: Obviously, I can’t not ask you about your views on the current state of Fashion Academics, since you have been so influential, for more than two decades, in training the designers we see all over the industry.

Simon Ungless: I became aware of how much of an industry education had become. Art and Design academics especially became a cash cow for so many schools. More students, more income. 

We talked in terms of ‘seats sold,’ customer service, recruitment goals, no barriers admissions, dumb it down with no regard for what the industry required in terms of numbers of graduates needed to fill open positions. We were all churning out 100’s of undergrads every year with no jobs to apply to, but loaded down with huge loan debts and the encouragement to apply for grad school. 

And that’s another thing; every school now has a graduate program. The reality is, there aren’t that many students who even need to go to graduate school. A few years ago, it was a selective pathway; now it’s just tool to keep unemployment stats down for the school. I despise the current model schools are following. It’s a recipe for disaster, and many are already floundering.

September 25, 2025

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Photo: SS26 Runway, Tokyo, courtesy of AKIKOAOKI

Le Fool: The title of your new collection can be considered very suggestive and ambiguous. Could you tell us a little bit about the theme, what it means to you and why it was an important title to your collection?

Akiko Aoki: This season, the collection is titled ‘where she takes shape’. This is because AKIKAOKI’s focus for this season is not on a woman’s identity, but rather on her individuality. Looking at each look, some are formal, some are casual, and some are uniform-like. The title is meant to convey the idea that these various personalities are brought together, sometimes creating a soft halo effect and at other times forming a powerful outline of the self.

April 23, 2025Interviewed by Ali Khan | Co-Founder

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Photo: AW25 ‘montage’ shot by Robi Rodriguez courtesy of AKIKOAOKI



Ali Khan: Japanese fashion has a long history of pioneering women designers who shaped global fashion. As part of the new generation leading Japanese fashion today, how do you see yourself carrying forward this legacy? Do you feel a responsibility to redefine Japanese fashion’s voice?

Akiko Aoki: I believe that Japan has its own unique sense of beauty, values, and character. Our predecessors have continued to face and challenge their own missions without pretense. Therefore, I believe that AKIKOAOKI should also uphold our brand philosophy, and always be in dialogue with the times from a uniquely Japanese perspective and with sincerity.

AK: 日本のファッション界には、世界のファッションを形作ってきた先駆的な女性デザイナーが多くいます。現在の日本のファッションをリードする新世代の一人として、あなた自身はこの遺産をどのように継承していくつもりですか？日本のファッションを再定義する責任を感じますか？

AA: 日本には独自の美意識や価値観、そして性質があると考えています。それらを持って創造を行なってきた先人たちが最も大切にしてきたことは、自身の使命に嘘偽りなく向かい続け、挑み続けたことではないでしょうか。なので、AKIKOAOKIも、AKIKOAOKIのフィロソフィーを持って、誠実に日本独自の視点と、都度、時代と対話していくことだと思います。

AK: Do you think the Japanese fashion industry has enough female representation? How can we achieve better balance?

AA: I feel that the Japanese fashion industry is a place where women can thrive. With that said, one thing I can say is that independent fashion designers in particular are very busy, as there are many situations where it becomes difficult to balance work and our private lives. It would be nice if there was some kind of support, not necessarily a support system from a company, but some type of support for women creators who are in such an independent position.

AK: 日本のファッション業界は、女性が十分に活躍できていると思いますか？どうすればもっとバランスが取れると思われますか？

AA: 日本のファッション業界は、女性が活躍できる土壌があると感じます。1つ言えるとしたら、特にインディペンデントなファッションデザイナーは仕事とプライベートを分けきれない場面も多々ありますので、本当に忙しいです。いろんな物事のバランスをうまく調整することは大変難しいですが、企業のようなサポートとまでは言いませんが、そういった独立した立場である女性クリエイターをサポートするものがあればいいですね。

AK: How would you describe the AKIKOAOKI muse? What defines her essence?

AA: There is no specific muse, but I guess she is a mature woman who never forgets to be true to herself and isn’t afraid of new challenges.

AK: AKIKOAOKIのミューズはどのような人物ですか？彼女の本質を定義するものは何ですか？

AA: 特定のミューズは存在しませんが、繊細さと挑戦を忘れない大人の女性、でしょうか。

AK: Could you walk us through your latest Fall/Winter 2025 collection—the concept, key pieces, and any new creative directions you explored this season?

AA: The keyword is ‘montage.'
First of all, as a premise, the brand takes “contradictions” and unexpected “bugs” that appear from close observation of reality, which we usually take for granted, as “hints of possibilities,” and expresses them as distortions of reality through the clothes.This season, the designer Aoki's natural point of view has been further applied to the brand's core concept. It is a direct realism of “the transformation of an outfit that appears through time and situations based on a woman's own reality”. Elements such as lingerie, for example, express an invisible realm where social norms and personal memories intersect, without contradicting masculine scintillation.

The items present two different approaches to tailoring, for example. On the one hand, the tops are reconstructed into an infinitely flat silhouette, with only the essential details extracted from the suit.  On the other hand, there is the jacket coat, in which pattern techniques are used to cut out the drape of the fabric, which is drawn by the natural roundness of the back, as it changes over time to nestle against the wearer's body. In the dress category, there is a draping dress that spatially captures the female body and creates a three-dimensional flow that responds to the body's movements using pattern-making techniques alone, without the use of gathers.

AK: 最新の2025年秋冬コレクションについて、コンセプト、キーアイテム、そして今シーズンの新しいクリエイティブの方向性について教えてください。

AA: キーワードは‘ montage ’
まず前提として、普段、私たちが「当たり前」と捉えている現実をつぶさに観察して現れる「矛盾」や予期せぬ「バグ」を“可能性を示唆するもの”として捉え、それらを洋服を通してリアリティの歪曲 として表現しています。そういったブランドの基幹となる考え方に、今季は、より一層、デザイナーである青木のナチュラルな視点が照射されていきました。 それは、「ひとりの女性において自身のリアリティに基づいた状況や時間を通して現れる装いの変容」という直裁的なリアリズムです。例えば、ランジェリーのような要素は、男性的な スーチングと反目しないかたちで、社会規範と個人の記憶が交錯する不可視の領域を表現しています。

アイテムでは、例えばテーラリングでは、二つの異なるアプローチを提示します。スーツという形式から本質的なディテールだけを抽出し、限りなくフラッ トなボディに再構築されたトップス。 もう一方には、時を経て着用者の体に寄り添うように変化していく様を、背中の自然な丸みが描き出す布地のドレープをパターンテク ニックで切り取ったジャケットコートがあります。また、ドレスでは、女性の身体性を空間的に捉え、ギャザーを用いずパターンメイキングの技術のみで、身体の動きに呼応する立 体的な流れを構築したドレーピングドレスがあります。

January 17, 2025Interviewed by Miu Xia | Editor

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Photo: Summer Lace shoe charm set Courtesy of KIKYO.


Miu: I first followed you after falling in love with your Summer Lace shoe charm set, a combination of dainty lace, crystal beads and perfectly layered metallic accents. What is your favorite medium to work with, and what are some textures, materials, or ideas you would like to experiment with next?

Sandra: Ah, thank you so much! I am so glad you love the set, you literally saw the lace vision! ~ ❤

After trying out resin, crochet and clay, I still choose beads as my favourite medium (perhaps it’s a bias), but I love mixing beads with fabric, such as ruffles, chiffons, and ribbons! (coquette still dominates haha). I find that fabric enhances the beauty and sparkle of the beads, it makes a creation look more complete as a piece. In line with this, it’s probably because I always see in a way if my pieces are wearable with something that my customers already have. For example: shoes > fabric, clothes > fabric, bag > fabric or leather — — — which is what I would like to explore next year… But for now, this is a sneak peek to my SS ’25.

I mostly find inspos from the runways instead of objects, I analyse the structure of the clothes and translate it into jewellery pieces.

M: I love the quote you used for the product description of the Jellyfish Ribbon keychain: “If I do get reborn, then I, I want to just rock gently on the ocean waves. I want to be a jellyfish. 私はクラゲになりたい」 (Watashi wa Kurage ni Naritai)” from Princess Jellyfish, episode 5. From your use of delicate chiffon flowers to freshwater pearls, jellyfish to black swan motifs, nature is such a big theme in your collections. What do you envision as the lifestyle of those who wear KIKYO, and what might they be similarly inspired by?

S: I am a huge fan of slice of life anime — just about everyday life, and just like the Jellyfish quote, it’s more of a enjoy your present, while trying your best — stay grateful and treasure what you have. Their lifestyle could be anything: indoor, outdoor, small or large group of friends, party no party, makeup no makeup, introvert or extrovert. I’d love them to be content with their lives :) If I were to give an inspiration to this lifestyle, it would be this particular [playlist] Oldies + Rain by Nemo’s Dreamscapes. Such an odd reference, but it gives you comfort and calm.

Interviewed by Ali Khan | Co-Founder

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Ali Khan: We are increasingly having to navigate between the digital and real world, creating tension and new challenges for artists. How does it inform your creative process?

Nana Mandl: Right now, I’m really enjoying this balancing act. Since much of my work relies on meticulous analog techniques, I feel like I’ve found a good equilibrium between these two worlds. And the process of translating one into the other has been a major part of my creative work.

Herbert De Colle: Analog plays an important role in my work. When I think of my work “EMOTION” for the Art Box in the MuseumsQuartier in Vienna, for example. It is about handmade papier-mâché faces modeled on Harvey Ball's smileys. Conceived in 1963 in analog form, later distributed digitally and now brought back to analog form by me.

In my work “LOVE, PEACE, FOREVER” – which consists of cut posters and prints – the subjects I designed are also crafted in analog form in a very time-consuming, repetitive gesture. 

September 13, 2024Interviewed by Ali Khan | Co-Founder

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Photo: Courtesy of Hideaki Shikama.

PARIS—It’s menswear fashion week and amongst the buzz of countless fashion events (not to mention the Euro cup and the pre-Olympics street parties) a poster on the wall catches our attention. Children of the Discordance, the much sought after Japanese brand, is holding a showroom for their spring/summer 2025 menswear collection.

Established in 2011 with a strong connection to the underground music scene of Tokyo, Children of the Discordance is somewhat of an enigma. Having been around long enough to be an established player on the Tokyo fashion scene, yet still not part of the mainstream fashion language.

Unlike a lot of young designers out of Japan following the likes of the great Rei Kawakubo and Yohji Yamamoto, Hideaki Shikama has walked to the beat of his own drum, finding his cues instead in the codes of youth street culture that have been developed by the likes of Jun Takahashi, Nigo, and Hiroshi Fujiwara. But at a time when hype culture is dying down and high fashion continues its move away from the skateboard inspired street culture of last decade (not to mention Nigo experiencing serious growing pains at Kenzo and Jun Takahashi ready to scale back his business in these difficult economic times), it’s Children of the Discordance, that, refreshingly, is taking on a role of harmonizing the streetwear aesthetics into a long-lasting language that can live on beyond hype culture.

“People don’t understand, Chicago has some of the greatest artists to ever exist that you never heard of.” Growing up in Aurora, Illinois, just an hour outside of Chicago, Jermaine Campbell’s suburban upbringing made him feel like an outsider to the hip-hop music scene. That is, until Kanye West’s “The College Dropout'' reimagined it in 2004 by introducing middle class themes that bucked genre norms and secularism. As the story goes, the breakout album inspired a new wave of Chicago artists, notably Chance the Rapper, who reached mainstream success without the help of a major record label. For Campbell a.k.a. MADE, who cites Qari Delaney and Luke Titus as peers, and Elton Aura as his main collaborator, laying claim to the city as buried treasure is a sign for us to keep digging, or more appropriately, keep streaming.

You might think it strange, then, that I would have to ask Campbell to clarify what resonates most for him today, fashion or music. Back in February of this year, he helped launch the first capsule collection for Kustom Godz, a line of tailored sweats by basketball legend Kevin Garnett, for which Campbell served as the creative director. MADE tells me, still in disbelief, that he was introduced to “the Big Ticket” at a Paul Smith store in L.A. on what was an otherwise ordinary shift at his day job.

I imagine Garnett needs no introduction. He stands at 6 feet 11 inches and in his basketball shoes, over 7 feet. For the 2023-2024 season, the average height of NBA players was 6’ 6.5.” Off-the-rack suits or ready-to-wear max out at 6’ 2.” Even with the spending power of a professional sports contract, finding something that fits well and looks good can be challenging, forget befitting a professional athlete. Further complicating matters, MADE tells me, “Basketball players, in general, don’t have to be the tallest to be a tough fit. They might be 6' 4," which could normally fit an XXL, but their arms could be ridiculously long, or their glute muscles could be too big for certain pants, even if they fit them on the inseam.”

The NBA tradition of players celebrating their first contract signing with a visit to the tailor goes back further than our recent fascination with athletes’ looks from the tunnel, captured by @leaguefits, the much beloved Instagram account started by SLAM in March 2018.

Just take a look back at an LA Times article from 1993, and you’ll see that Lakers player Sam Perkins liked to spend his free time shopping for suit fabrics when he was on the road and that Kevin Willis, then a player for the Atlanta Hawks, had studied fashion design (his major was in fashion & textiles) at Michigan State. Willis would go on to intern for Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger, and start his own brand, Willis & Walker, which premiered at NYFW in September 2011.

Sports and fashion fans today are lucky to have @leaguefits, which also retrospectively captures the decades ahead looks of Dennis Rodman or the dapper, funky styles of Walt Frazier, in addition to current fascinations, Russell Westbrook or Jordan Clarkson.

Predictably, the NBA tried to clamp down on players dressing up in 2005, with a memo that cited “business casual” as the official dress code, forbidding sleeveless shirts, sunglasses when indoors, chains, pendants etc. Golden State Warriors guard, Jason Richardson called out the policy as racist and in spite of the policy push, stylists such as Courtney Mays have continued to blend hip-hop, emerging brands, and established luxury labels into unique looks that celebrate the player’s personality, pride, love for life and the game.

Garnett’s foray into fashion sits firmly in the #CozyFam category made popular by @leaguefits and incorporates old-school tailoring for that special feeling you can only get from a custom fit.

But back to the music, which MADE resolutely chose over fashion when I asked him for clarification. MADE began to pursue a musical career in his early 20s and rediscovered the natural inclination he had: He didn’t grow up playing any instruments and has no formal training; everything he does now—writing, recording, producing—he’s had to learn on his own. The earliest track available online is from 2017, “Don’t Stop” featuring EKO on Apple Music, which was followed by a slew of singles until 2020, when he released the EP, “Black Stories.” He returned in 2022 with “By Myself” and a follow up, “By Myself: Double Text” in 2023. In the same year, he released “The Great Outdoors” and companion projects to the albums: a “Great Outdoors Discussion” and “A Convo with No Budget” for further reflection on the themes of each project. Paul Smith was a way to make an honest living, immersed in a secondary interest.

“I just remember when I was a kid, I used to be able to memorize music very well, like if I heard a song playing through a wall. One night I was sleeping, and I woke up and heard the neighbors having a party next door. I could hear the bassline through the wall, and just from that, I could put together the rest of the instruments that were in the song at a young age. I never knew what that meant but I was always curious about it, and I think that’s what led me to trying to do music later in life.”

Despite fashion taking a secondary role, MADE is still invested. After all, taking inspiration from Ye isn’t for dabblers or for sycophants, and MADE questions luxury as a part of his design process. A question, Ye’s previously oft-collaborator, Demna Gvasalia, publicly asked (and answered) during the premiere of Balenciaga’s Winter 2024 collection.

In the line of such questioning there’s little room for self-delusions and admiration is earned. MADE says, “The thing that I hate is that emblems and status sway people’s taste. Do we really like that car, or do we really like the brand of the car? Or do we think that just because it’s expensive, we want it? Do we really like Balenciaga, or do we really like the shirt we saw in Zara? You could be in a position to acquire both, but if you trust your taste, it doesn’t matter what the stake or the circumstances are.”

In an era where many European luxury brands are overreaching the natural boundaries of their influence and forsaking positioning for the sake of growth, MADE’s sentiments are a part of a greater interrogation of luxury. Balenciaga gave permission, as Kanye did for Black artists living outside of the city, for shunned cultures to take up space on the global stage. MADE’s vocalizations in music and fashion could prove to be another conduit in this global movement.

In this interview with Le Fool, Campbell shares with us his gospel for art-making—an inspiring guidebook for autodidacts, multi-hyphenate creatives and the self-MADE.

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October 6, 2024Interviewed by Jee Young Park | Co-Founder

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Photo: Courtesy of MADE, Jermaine Campbell

LE FOOL: There were many ways to start this interview because you have a world unto your name. I see you in Jamaica, NYC, LA, London, and Paris. In terms of interests, you’re just as adventurous; you explore fashion, music, relationship advice, lessons in getting fired, to faith. When I look at your body of work, the feeling I get is, “your cup runneth over.” Do you ever feel overwhelmed as a result? Like there is so much you have to do and say and not enough time? 

MADE: I feel super overwhelmed! And all my friends, all my peers know this about me because whenever I need to do something I don’t know what to do or where to start. 

It’s a gift and a curse that I’ve taught myself how to do so many things creatively and I have such a vast interest in things that I want to pursue. 

In making music, I can write the music, I can record the music, and I can produce the music. Then you go into creative direction. I know how to do all these things, but I never know where to start. 

And a lot of the time I do too much heavy lifting and I get extremely overwhelmed to the point where I’ll just disappear. That’s something even people who have kept up with my work or kept up with my life and journey will notice. I just go away. You will not see me on social media. I might have deleted that shit. Or maybe I’ll come back, or I’ll come back as a new image or a new profile.

Whatever the case may be, I have to constantly reset or restart and that’s something that’s a little bit frustrating because I’m a self-aware person. I’ll have certain conversations with my peers, my friends, my family and I’ll be venting to them, and I’ll realize — “You do the same thing every time, you bite off more than you can chew.”

What I’m starting to embrace is that, since I’m a multi-creative, I have to set my own schedule. I have to set my own task list and that is extremely important. I can’t create spontaneously. I have to direct my focus at times. 

I also have to remind myself that things take time to get done. That frustrates me because I’m the type of creative where I could finish something in a night, and I want to put it out tomorrow. That’s who I am. That’s how I work. And that’s what excites me. 

The art of leaving something undone but still trusting that it will either get done or everything will be okay without it, is a shocking but necessary thing that I’m trying to instill into my life as a person and as a creative. 

It's like heartbreak. When I listen back to my album, “By Myself” there’s so much demand for closure. Then I started to learn in life that you don’t always get closure. You don’t always need closure and sometimes the closure that you need in the moment is not the masterpiece. 

The masterpiece is when you forget about it and you’re living a life, and you realize, damn, if these things did not happen, then I could not be in this space that I’m so at peace with and I wouldn’t trade this for anything.

For me, I get to that place through my art. Nowadays I tell myself, be okay with the fact that you made something extremely hot but it’s not going to see the light of day. 

You might’ve needed to make that, or you might’ve needed to fail at trying to make that and it actually helped. 

Or because it’s not out there, you can take pieces from that and implement it into something that needs it more. 

It’s all about creating balance and really letting things develop on their own time. That would be my short answer. Letting things develop and not being so much in control, even though I could do all these things. 

But yes, it’s very overwhelming.

LE FOOL: How do you know a project is complete? Is it a feeling or does something else naturally come up?

MADE: I’ll answer this in two ways. Projects I’ve worked on in the past are complete when I stop wanting to live in that world, in that sound or in that look. Usually there’s nothing else to do or I start to overthink things and be like, “Oh, I wish…” 

When I start to wish things were different, I know it’s probably best that I just go ahead and put a ribbon on it because then I’m just being the character trait of pretty much every true artist, which is a perfectionist and as we know there’s no such thing as perfection. That’s when I usually know I’m done. 

Granted, this last year is probably the longest time that I’ve spent without putting out a project or music. I don’t think I’ve put out anything since “The Great Outdoors.” 

It’s been about a year because my employment required my creativity for the first time ever. Which was interesting. A lot of my energy went into that and not into what I was doing anymore. It just opened up a window of time for things to happen. 

A lot of the time I would think about my art and my work as something that was going to save me or take me out of the life I was living. It wasn’t until a few short years ago when I realized my art is my art and I believe it will take me to the heights that I want to go. However, there are things that I can do practically that will still give me the life that I want to live, and it will only enhance my art. 

Last year—I think for the first time—I was working a position that was very healthy for me financially. So, I was not rushed at all, and it was a new perspective. Before that, everything I did, I had to get done because my life wasn’t right. But what I know now is that when my life is right, I’m looking at everything like I don’t have to do anything in a hurry. 

My favorite quote is, “Be quick but don’t hurry” because there’s a difference between moving with a sense of purpose versus rushing. I would say if you were to ask me then, that most of the projects I’ve put out feel complete. But you know, “The Great Outdoors,” I think it was seven or eight, I think I made it to nine tracks, who knows right? And I felt like that’s a proper album— that’s not a four, five track EP, seven track EP. I only wondered what it would’ve been like if I could dedicate my whole life to creating “The Great Outdoors.” What if it had been a situation where I had to deliver an album and someone had said, “We’ll give you three years to just live and work on this,” then “The Great Outdoors” might have been 14 tracks, I don’t know.

I guess to answer the question, it’s within the window that you decide. This is something that’s important, setting deadlines — right? If you don’t set a deadline, then you’ll be creating forever.

So, how do you know when a project is done? When there’s nothing left to do or when you realize you’re making excuses and perfectionistic is how, but it’s also when you hit your deadline. 

I feel like a lot of artists don’t graduate for the same reason a lot of students don’t graduate, you could’ve been holding onto something that you intended to do forever—you intended to complete forever—but yo! If you miss the assignment date, you don’t pass to the next grade. I think that’s something that we as artists always got to be aware of in our creative process. 

LE FOOL: How do you stay focused in your work while maintaining a presence across multiple platforms?

MADE: I can’t even answer this question because I don’t even know how I do it to be honest. To reference again what I was talking about earlier, it’s just one of those things where I crash out a lot. I would say this as my answer, creating a balance — and I’m still not perfect at that, I’m a work in progress when it comes to that. 

LE FOOL: In “The Great Outdoors” album notes you wrote, “[Black Campfire Song] was not made when it was ‘up.’ It was really low actually…the original lyrics was actually ‘F**K These n++++s’…but that was written years ago…The tone the album took on was more uplifting and positive…” Do you feel like this was a more fundamental change in your personality than “staying positive”? And some people never make this shift, even on a winning streak. I’m curious to know if there were instances where you said to yourself, “Wow, thank goodness I kept to it despite how difficult it was”? How has cultivating this mindset served you? For ambitious artists on a budget, what is one tip to help spark this mindset?

MADE: When I made “Black Campfire Song” it was really like a freestyle. I remember it was somebody’s birthday and we were in the room just creating. When I came up with the melody it was so catchy. I think I was infatuated by the simplicity of songs that are geared to kids but end up being hits for adults. 

If you look at Lil Yachty’s “One Night,” it’s essentially the same kind of melody that you would hear in “Row, Row, Row Your Boat” and “The ABC Song” — things that are just that simple. So, I remember doing it and putting on my Kanye hat, thinking, “Oh, this is really controversial. Let’s do it!”

I wrote that so many years ago. Now, as an artist who’s 30 years old as opposed to an artist that’s 26 or 18 or 21, I just have more understanding of how these things affect human beings because I’ve had to address that in myself.

In making the whole album, I went through a lot of different transitions in life. I feel like I’ve always had a relationship with God, but I’ve never been able to cope with the fact that I was raised in Christianity. I let go of Christianity at a certain point then transitioned into overall wellness — exploring authors like Deepak Chopra and reading books like “The Power of Now” — things that weren’t encouraged when I was in church — and then made it back to my walk in faith as a Christian. 

As a sidebar: I believe all religion is a language to a higher power and some people’s language is Buddhism, some people’s language is Islam, I just happen to have a grandmother who is Christian and instilled that particular faith in everybody in my family.

For me, by the time I got to the end, all of the songs on this album, the creative process of putting it all together, it was so much about trying to keep the standard of being “real,” and being honest about real things in life: Being honest about what it feels like to grieve. What it feels like to lose people that you love. What it feels like to be stripped down so much that you’re just seeing life at a place where it’s extremely beautiful even with all the ugly things that have happened to you. That is the “Great Outdoors” in a nutshell. 

Then I had this song, “Black Campfire Song” — which is why it’s called “Black Campfire Song” — where I was saying, “fuck these N****s.” It was the beginning of the project and I sent it to Elton Aura, who is a close friend of mine that I always work with, and we both kind of agreed when listening to it that it was, for all of the positivity and the resolve (me and Elton talk a lot about putting art out there that has a resolution as much as it is raw), I wouldn’t want anybody to stop at track one and all they got from it is, “Fuck these N****s” and that it’s as catchy as ABC’s. 

I actually had somebody say that to me who wasn’t Black. When they heard the album before it was out, they were like, “Oh yeah, I keep hearing this when I’m brushing my teeth.” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s probably a little bit dangerous.” I had to flip it into something that was more positive because I want the art to work for good, and I want it to be well communicated. 

To answer another part of the question, a tip that could spark a proper mindset to be creative and ambitious on a budget is to work with the people around you and embrace learning new skills. I didn’t come into my career thinking that I was going to be the one holding the camera and mixing and mastering my own work, so on and so forth. 

On my very first project, I mixed and mastered on my own, and that ended terribly. That was devastating to me because I thought that one project was everything. I thought it was my moment. But the more you live and the more you create, you realize, “No, that was just the moment that you were in, and it’s not all that bad that you fucked it up.”

The two projects after, I paid somebody to do it, but I watched them very closely while they were doing it. By the time I got to “By Myself: Double Text” I was doing my own mixes. 

“The Great Outdoors” is one of my favorite projects as far as how I delivered it and I’m the one that mixed and mastered it. The things that you refuse to do or think you shouldn’t have to do, make sure that you always do something towards being more well-versed in it, because you never know. That might actually be your task someday, and now I actually embrace it, and I love it. 

LE FOOL: In “A Great Outdoors Discussion,” there’s a lovely moment when you’re talking about being in nature as opposed to the city, and you can hear the beats in your reply, from feeling singled out or perhaps a little alone, then relishing it — it’s a revelation, the self in nature, “I’m the only one bringing the loud music. I’m the only one bringing it man but I’m perfectly fine with being the only, you know, that’s the other thing too, I feel more unique in spaces like this, I feel more myself…” I feel like you’re talking about finding negative space, that clean canvas, and how you can find that in nature. In addition to nature, what are other ways artists can look for empty spaces to speak into? Or cope with the void? Is it through travel? Reflection? A glass of water in the morning? Routines? I guess I’m essentially asking how you stay sane as a creative person.

MADE: All the ones you mentioned in your questions are actually great. It just depends on who you are. For me, being in the void is something that is very important as an artist, and it’s an easy one to forget too. I have to remind myself that it’s a part of my day the same way that eating and drinking is. It’s a part of my day to meditate. It’s a part of my day to pray. It’s a part of the fuel behind my creation to go see another walk of life. 

If I could travel and get on a flight, that’s ideal. But if I can’t do that and I can just take a drive or if I can be in an unfamiliar space to notice a life outside of mine then you know, that’s also sufficient enough to help my art and to help spark creativity. 

At the end of the day, we are all just vessels. We are all shaped differently. Imagine every artist were a statue or a sculpture just out in the world, and it only has one variable, and that’s basically where it’s placed. 

You can pick up this sculpture and move it into an empty field in the grasslands and you could point it ninety degrees west and then the wind comes, and it might be gentle, it might be a tornado, you just never know. 

Based on that, you will get the sound that that instrument creates, and I feel like as artists we are all just instruments that are channeling the wind or the force that comes through us. 

The most important part for us is to do inventory and make sure that we’re cleansing to be able to create the purest sound. And I think that’s why a lot of artists suffer — from buildup. We have buildup and there’s no clear space for the air, for the message to run through you. Then you’re probably not going to be making…well, you’re probably not going to make a sound. 

Or you’re not going to make the sound that you want. Or that you expected. Or that you know you can make. But if you do the things that keep you healthy — that’s cleaning the instrument, cleaning the vessel — so that energy can flow through it more effectively, that’s what it’s all about! 

Things like traveling changes the tune of the sound, or it could just refresh you, it could be a part of that cleansing, but it’s all about what we’re ingesting through our senses, that create the art that happens through us as artists, as creatives. 

LE FOOL: Who are your greatest influences and why?

MADE: I would definitely say Kanye is my greatest influence and I would say the why is because he did it. I’m from Aurora, Illinois. He did what he did in Chicago and there’s nobody who has ever done anything to that magnitude in Chicago to my knowledge. Not in my era at least. 

People don’t understand, Chicago has some of the greatest artists to ever exist that you never heard of. And at the end of the day, you look at L.A. there’s a music industry there. You see Capitol Records buildings, you see Warner Music, you see the music or the movie industry. 

You look at New York, it’s the same thing — you’ll see Def Jam or Roc Nation and you know, all of these industries for the music to actually progress and grow, get out there to the world. 

In Chicago we have a few small record labels, zero major record labels and we’re a major city. And we have tons, we have a thriving art scene, but a lot of the time, it’s kept local. I got to see the most of that in Kanye West and that’s what I relate to the most. His walk in the beginning most spoke to me. 

I grew up in Aurora, Illinois, not Chicago, Illinois. I never fit in when I went to the city, at least when I was a kid. I was always going to be labeled a kid from the suburbs. I was always going to be labeled as a Black kid with a white walk of life. And Kanye was the first person, the first artist I came into contact with who embodied a walk of life that did not involve violence or selling drugs and an interest in hip-hop. All the things that hip-hop was known for before him. And, of course, that’s not all hip-hop was about, that’s not what I’m saying. 

I’m saying that it would have been impossible for somebody from anywhere that wasn’t living in a major inner city if it weren’t for him. It would have been impossible if Kanye West or someone like Kanye West did not exist. It would have been impossible for somebody from the suburbs to make it in rap, decide that they want to sing, or use and make house music at times. Or wear a pink polo or be into fashion. Being into actual fashion was taboo in hip-hop, so all of these things came with their own labels. I would definitely say that as much as I try not to say Kanye West — Kanye West. 

I want to name some of my other influences as well. Definitely Jay-Z. His ability as a wordsmith is something that I really respect. His acumen as a businessman and as a thought leader too. 

I’ve always respected Pharrell. Pharrell is one of my biggest influences and I love his ability to communicate and bring people together. It makes so much sense to me that he made so many hit records as a producer because 75% or more of producing is all about communication and getting people together. Putting people in a position where they can bring out their best selves. Maybe 25% or even a smaller percentage is about the actual music that’s being put out there. 

And he made people feel so confident singing on them beats that sounded a little incomplete or singing “Frontin’” which I hated when I was a kid because he really does not have the richest voice but man, his ability to express and his belief in himself and him just being like—a Martian, it was like all-time. He’s one of my all-time influences for sure. 

And he lives in so many different spaces, not just as a producer, but as an artist, as a creative director, as a collaborator, you know, as a humanitarian. The way that Pharrell lives his life as far as I can see — because I don’t know any of these people — it’s more sustainable when I watch his art and his life. It’s sustainable for me to model my art and my life after. 

The taste of Kanye West is just on some whole other shit but how he lives his life is harder to process and harder to understand. It’s less sustainable for your everyday person or everyday artist. An everyday person couldn’t get away with the shit that Kanye West does. An everyday person couldn’t get away with the things Kanye says without merit or accountability. But an everyday person can thrive and live a fruitful life in whatever they do if they take a little bit of what Pharrell has shown us publicly. 

So, Kanye West, Pharrell, Jay-Z. I love Q-Tip too, I love J Dilla, I like to look at the people who influenced the people who influenced me, and those are some of those names. 

October 11, 2023
Interviewed by Jee Young Park | Co-Founder

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All works in this interview are protected under the artist’s Copyright. Images are for the purposes of this interview only and with permission from the artist. All images courtesy of SUZEDEE©.

Le Fool: On your website, you write: “I am not fancy. I serve no art god.” Can you elaborate on not serving an “art god” and how it affects your approach to creativity?

SUZEDEE: I think in this context I use the term “god” almost like a representation of systemic art institutions. I don’t have formal training or schooling. Where at one point I was extremely self-conscious about that, I’ve now found it to be extremely liberating. I let go of trying to create as a form of validation from the outside and instead focus on what makes me happy. They’re simple pieces, but they’re from the heart.

LE FOOL: If not an art god, do you drive your practice from a set of values or something else?

SUZEDEE: My work is purely driven by my own whimsy and curiosities. I’ve always struggled to find what my thematic commonality is. My brain is always going in 100 directions. I’m driven by emotion, whether my personal experience or what I’ve witnessed or heard secondhand. I think a lot about the universal feelings and experiences humans share, from the beginning of time. I value the human experience, the absurdity of it all, the finiteness, the connection…

LE FOOL: Do you apply this lens when you consume the work of others? If yes, how does it alter your perspective of their work?

SUZEDEE: I think so. I try to take in the work, form my thoughts on it, and then try to understand their perspective and message.

LE FOOL: Gilding is not the most accessible career, as far as I know. How did you get started?

SUZEDEE: God no lol. Well, at the time I was working retail but I knew I really loved art and I wanted a creative career. So I did what I could to expose myself to that environment. I took a fabrication class, I talked to everyone I met in a creative field, asked a bunch of questions. Just casting a wide net every chance I could. Eventually, I met someone who was a friend of my partner (at the time), and they were a gilder. They let me help out on a project they were doing. I think I worked for free the first couple of times. I just wanted the exposure. I had no idea what it was, I think I went home and tried to Google everything I could about the craft. Eventually, they introduced me to their boss, who eventually became my boss after an apprenticeship. It was wild. At that point, I was doing 60-hour work weeks between gilding and my retail job, and finally, I was like, “I gotta take this risk”. So I quit the retail job and went into gilding full time and did that for a couple of years.